Thursday, November 22, 2012

Bhagwan Ramana Maharshi on JK's Choiceless Awareness

 11-1-46 Afternoon
A young man from Colombo asked Bhagavan, “J. Krishnamurti teaches the method of effortless and choiceless awareness as distinct from that of deliberate concentration. Would Sri Bhagavan be pleased to explain how best to practise meditation and what form the object of meditation should take?”

Bhagavan Ramana : Effortless and choiceless awareness is our real nature. If we can attain it or
be in that state, it is all right. But one cannot reach it without effort, the effort of deliberate meditation. All the age-long vasanas carry the mind outward and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inward. For that, effort is necessary for most people. Of course everybody, every book says, “Summa iru” i.e., “Be quiet or still”. But it is not easy. That is why all this effort is necessary. Even if we find one who has at once achieved the mauna or Supreme state indicated by “Summa iru”, you may take it that the effort necessary has already been finished in a previous life. So that, effortless and choiceless awareness is reached only after deliberate meditation. That meditation can take any form which appeals to you best. See what helps you to keep away all other thoughts and adopt that method for your meditation.

Bhagwan Ramana Maharshi

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14 Comments:

Blogger Kama Krishna said...

The expression: "Different strokes for different folks" is an apt statement since we human beings are unique from a DNA perspective but paradoxically have come from the same source (Universal Consciousness). Hence each individual needs a unique approach to Self-Enquiry.

As such we don't have to achieve anything except to AWAKEN Unconscious Divinity latent in us to CONSCIOUS DIVINITY which is labeled as Choiceless Awareness (CA). After all we are using "words" to communicate as JK said, and words are not the "thing", and the "description" is not the "described". A Rose by any other name still smells the same.

Different tools/techniques for Meditation such as Vipassana, Kriya Yoga, Shaktipat are available for CA depending on the seekers' SANSKARAS. A self-realized Perfect Master's blessings and grace in one's seeking helps in the process. So enjoy LIFE by knowing that you are already self-realized but not every moment, which needs choiceless EFFORT. Meher Baba's philosophy of Love & Selfless Service is one of the easier ways, where one forgets ONESELF leading to non-duality which is our natural state. JAI BABA.

9:17 PM  
Blogger Ode a Psicodelia said...

With all my respect, Bhagwan Ramana Maharshi is wrong. Effort is not necessary, because choiceless awareness is not something to be practice or achieve.

10:28 PM  
Blogger Ode a Psicodelia said...

There is a contradiction between Jiddu Krishnamurti and Ramana Mahrshi. You left this bold phrase in krishnamurti text:

"As long as we go on climbing the ladder of success, there will always be the sick and the unfed."

So, if you try to achieve something, you are bound to create the confusion of success. Thereby, all method of meditation is really a creation of the self. For there reason, creates always conflict.

To be awere of this fact is "choiceless awareness".

11:47 PM  
Blogger Ode a Psicodelia said...

There is a contradiction between Jiddu Krishnamurti and Ramana Mahrshi. You left this bold phrase in krishnamurti text:

"As long as we go on climbing the ladder of success, there will always be the sick and the unfed."

So, if you try to achieve something, you are bound to create the confusion of success. Thereby, all method of meditation is really a creation of the self. For there reason, creates always conflict.

To be awere of this fact is "choiceless awareness".

11:48 PM  
Blogger Ode a Psicodelia said...

All the age-long vasanas carry the mind outward and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inward. For that, effort is necessary for most people. Of course everybody, every book says, “Summa iru” i.e., “Be quiet or still”. But it is not easy. That is why all this effort is necessary.

Look to this fact and you will see the danger of the statement of St.Ramana Mahrshi. The true is that: All effort born from the necessity to reach something. So, you strive, hoping to find an end. Effort really comes from that and then, the desire for success.

Thereby, all effort must be denied, because effort creates confusion. Meditation is the total understanding of the self.

12:00 AM  
Blogger Ode a Psicodelia said...

"As such we don't have to achieve anything except to AWAKEN Unconscious Divinity latent in us to CONSCIOUS DIVINITY which is labeled as Choiceless Awareness (CA)."

This is also a dangers thing to say, because there's not such thing as "the awaken of the unconscious divinity".

Look, this is also a Krishnamurti teaching. Thereby, this is not my particular invention. So, ehen you use a technique for meditation, you are trying to achieve. In the process of thechique, you are bound to create an end. If you don't create an end, your technique is useless.

To creat an end is to achieve, which creates the demand for success. To see this fact is to be choiceless awareness. So, to see the truth you don't need to made any effort.

12:19 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Simply stated, we are consciousness without content. We are pure awareness. We are not the content of our awareness (opinions, judgments, beliefs, thinking, random thoughts or personal preferences). If you drop words and language; drop all your labeling of what's seen, heard, felt, tasted and touched; leave your life experience and knowledge in the background; and simply BE without effort, that's who you are. The body has been equipped by nature and all your knowledge and life experience of this world. There is no need to make effort to access it. When it is needed it will arise on its own without any effort from any "person". As adults it's not necessary to think about the basics of life. We know how to feed ourselves, bathe ourselves, dress ourselves, walk, talk etc without having to think about it. This is how it is. It is not necessary for a "person" to do these things. The idea that you are an individual person was and is created by the content of your consciousness / awareness. We are simply localized aspects of one single consciousness which is the awareness that knows. We are existence itself. The universe exists within us. But even saying that is wrong. You simply must experience it to understand. Anything said will be interpreted based on a persons knowledge and life experiences.

6:42 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Simply stated, we are consciousness without content. We are pure awareness. We are not the content of our awareness (opinions, judgments, beliefs, thinking, random thoughts or personal preferences). If you drop words and language; drop all your labeling of what's seen, heard, felt, tasted and touched; leave your life experience and knowledge in the background; and simply BE without effort, that's who you are. The body has been equipped by nature and all your knowledge and life experience of this world. There is no need to make effort to access it. When it is needed it will arise on its own without any effort from any "person". As adults it's not necessary to think about the basics of life. We know how to feed ourselves, bathe ourselves, dress ourselves, walk, talk etc without having to think about it. This is how it is. It is not necessary for a "person" to do these things. The idea that you are an individual person was and is created by the content of your consciousness / awareness. We are simply localized aspects of one single consciousness which is the awareness that knows. We are existence itself. The universe exists within us. But even saying that is wrong. You simply must experience it to understand. Anything said will be interpreted based on a persons knowledge and life experiences.

6:43 AM  
Blogger Ryan Burton said...

The idea that effort plays no part in spiritual realization is misleading. With this no-effort type of spiritual teaching we end up with people believing and saying, "We're already enlightened there is nothing to do". Enlightenment remains a mere concept for those individuals. I respect Krishnamurti he is a wonderful teacher and speaker, but his teachings are unfit for beginners. Choice-less awareness for the untrained mind is ineffective. That is why Ramana Maharshi remarked that if the student had the capacity to remain in such a state then it is ok. Most students and beginners do not have that capacity. That is why Ramana Maharshi suggests that one train the mind with effort up to the attainment of Dhyana. Then Self-Inquiry could be practiced to such an extent that not even dream and sleep could distract one from the awareness of the Self. How many students of Krishnamurti, without using effort, actually realized this level of immersion with the Absolute? I doubt there were any who did so without effort. Even Krishnamurti himself on multiple accounts spoke of the tremendous amount of effort required to keep the flame of attention alive. I doubt that there has ever been an enlightened individual who did not apply earnest effort. Effort must be "Right Effort", as the Buddha taught. It must be a wholesome effort free of clinging. When you practice Samatha you don't keep thinking I'm going to attain Jhana! Getting closer and closer each moment! You remain with the object and be present with what is arising while letting go of all else. Thousands of individuals have attained realization through arduous mind training. This training, for such individuals, was necessary in order to transcend the mind altogether.

8:32 AM  
Blogger Ryan Burton said...

The idea that effort plays no part in spiritual realization is misleading. With this no-effort type of spiritual teaching we end up with people believing and saying, "We're already enlightened there is nothing to do". Enlightenment remains a mere concept for those individuals. I respect Krishnamurti he is a wonderful teacher and speaker, but his teachings are unfit for beginners. Choice-less awareness for the untrained mind is ineffective. That is why Ramana Maharshi remarked that if the student had the capacity to remain in such a state then it is ok. Most students and beginners do not have that capacity. That is why Ramana Maharshi suggests that one train the mind with effort up to the attainment of Dhyana. Then Self-Inquiry could be practiced to such an extent that not even dream and sleep could distract one from the awareness of the Self. How many students of Krishnamurti, without using effort, actually realized this level of immersion with the Absolute? I doubt there were any who did so without effort. Even Krishnamurti himself on multiple accounts spoke of the tremendous amount of effort required to keep the flame of attention alive. I doubt that there has ever been an enlightened individual who did not apply earnest effort. Effort must be "Right Effort", as the Buddha taught. It must be a wholesome effort free of clinging. When you practice Samatha you don't keep thinking I'm going to attain Jhana! Getting closer and closer each moment! You remain with the object and be present with what is arising while letting go of all else. Thousands of individuals have attained realization through arduous mind training. This training, for such individuals, was necessary in order to transcend the mind altogether

8:35 AM  
Blogger Mark Bradish said...

Think you got these dudes semantically confused. To use a metaphor of two swimming instructors One is saying floating in a pool is easy requires no effort. The other is saying make an effort get changed into swimming gear loosing the inappropriate clothing so you can float.

6:14 PM  
Blogger extreme-gunner said...

The mind is already perfected.

To realize this though; there are barriers.

Once the state of mind has been attained then there is no further action. It is choice-less awareness.

Though to get to that state, effort is required. Of course effort is required. It's why when Krishnamurti begins his talks, he says, "this is not entertainment.". Simply choosing to use the tool of self inquiry is effort.

It takes effort for the habitual way of consciousness to fall off.

9:18 PM  
Blogger Suresh Sukumaran said...

As per my experienced knowledge, Choiceless Awareness is the
by product, such that when a
human being, married / unmarried ! , happens to becomes a total celibate, the souls uninterrupted link with The Eternal All Pervasivity of Pure Consciousness gets automatically reestablished.

7:26 AM  
Blogger yashwant said...

Ramana maharshi said only gyani (self realized person) can understand the gyani ( Self realized person).No one can understand. What JK said is in his own way of teaching. What Ramana maharshi said is little bit in more detail. So never ever contradict or comment self realized souls.

5:26 PM  

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